Larry Gifford – “How NOT to Get A Job in Broadcasting and Media… and Best Practices for Landing Your First Job”
David Brody
00:24 – 00:38
Larry is the Program Director of 710 ESPN Radio in Los Angeles. Prior to that, he was in Bristol. He was the Program Director of ESPN Radio Network. So let’s give it up for Larry Gifford.
David Brody
00:24 – 00:38
Larry is the Program Director of 710 ESPN Radio in Los Angeles. Prior to that, he was in Bristol. He was the Program Director of ESPN Radio Network. So let’s give it up for Larry Gifford.
Larry Gifford
00:43 – 00:59
Thank you very much. The reason I’m here is because of Bruce Gilbert. He plucked me out of obscurity in Columbus, Ohio, and I went from Columbus to Bristol, which was an excellent experience. Real quick off of Bruce, I hope you took notes.
Larry Gifford
00:59 – 01:12
Because he is one of the smartest guys in radio. And I learned almost everything I know from him and Rick Scott. So, you know, I mean, he’s the best of the best. Best memo I ever got from Bruce Gilbert that he sent out to the entire staff at ESPN Radio.
Larry Gifford
01:13 – 01:20
It’s very brief. It was three things. Number one, play the hits. Number two, tease, plot, payoff.
Larry Gifford
01:21 – 01:36
Number three, have fun. That’s all it said. And I put that up on my bulletin board, and that was how we approached every day at the ESPN radio network. That’s what we do today in Los Angeles.
Larry Gifford
01:37 – 02:05
What I put together here, this is sort of a growing presentation. I receive a lot, a lot, a lot of people wanting jobs, you know, whether it’s resumes, phone calls, air checks, and there’s a way to go about it. for you to be considered, and there’s a way to go about it, where you will not be considered. So what I’ve put together is sort of a presentation on how not to get a job in broadcasting.
Larry Gifford
02:07 – 02:20
Some of you may have applied for jobs with me. I may have examples of stuff you’ve sent here. I have removed your name. But if you start crying, we’ll know.
Larry Gifford
02:22 – 02:40
I’ve given this presentation probably six times, and every time I tweak it a little bit, I add new stuff. I get stuff every month that I add to this file, and I add and delete, and we have fun with it. Some of it’s audio, some of it’s cover letters, some of it’s, you know, who knows. You should see the email exchange we’re going to go through here.
Larry Gifford
02:41 – 03:04
This is to teach you that there’s a way to go about getting a job in this business, and there’s a way not to go about getting a job in this business. First off, you already know who I am, so we’ll go through that quick. How not to get a job in broadcasting. Can one person mess up this badly?
Larry Gifford
03:05 – 03:35
Oh, you want a job in broadcasting, we’ll go over some of the things that you should do, and then we’ll have a question and answer. So I’ve been in the business 20 years. Real quick timeline, I started in college. Columbus, Ohio, Dayton, Ohio, Philadelphia, L.A., back to Columbus, up to Bristol, back to LA, and I did news, sports, producing, I was in a helicopter doing traffic reports, just did everything I could do.
Larry Gifford
03:36 – 03:56
And that’s what I preach. Be able to do anything and everything. It’s important to have a goal, to know what you want to do, but be willing to do anything to get there. How not to get a job in broadcasting is tell me why I shouldn’t hire you.
Larry Gifford
03:58 – 04:08
So we’re going to go through a couple. These are actual voicemails I’ve received for people wanting employment. I hope you can hear them. Hello, my name is Kevin.
Larry Gifford
04:08 – 04:25
My cell phone number is 323. I’m interested in being an intern. I can do it on certain days like Friday and Saturday and after seven during the work week. So if you could please give me a call and let me know if that’s a possibility.
Larry Gifford
04:26 – 04:43
I have limited experience. I have like cable TV production and public access production. So thank you and have a nice day. So the guy wants an internship in Los Angeles at a radio station with TV experience and limited work hours.
Larry Gifford
04:44 – 04:56
Low confidence. No reason given why he should be considered. Only why he shouldn’t be. This phone call I received in February.
Larry Gifford
04:57 – 05:30
Hey Larry, how are you? My name is *** and you know I’m new to LA and I went to actually go look for a job today and I came up on your spot. I haven’t done radio in a long time and I think there’s certain things that need to be addressed but I had the courage in the heart and also the billion dollar baby drew some billion dollar nuts and so I’m just giving you a quick call man. It’s 8*** and what I wanted to say was this man, what I always thought because you’re not going to call me but what I always thought will happen in my life and what intertwined in my life, right?
Larry Gifford
05:30 – 05:53
What I always thought, right? was, you know what, somebody was going to take me under their wing, I was going to email them, maybe work for a newspaper, and then boom, work for ESPN, and maybe a year or two years later, just to get something started, just to get something rolling, right? And that was always what I thought, right? And then I just, you know, out of just being pissed off and just defiant, right?
Larry Gifford
05:53 – 06:00
I just, you know, I was mad at the situation. Who can blame me? Right? I was just angry at the situation.
Larry Gifford
06:00 – 06:11
Right? And so, Larry, what I wanted to tell you was, man, I’m not afraid to show up, man. And I’m not afraid to call. And I was in a situation today, and I was like, why would I want to put up with this abuse, man?
Larry Gifford
06:12 – 06:24
So if you’re really good people, and you really got the courage and the heart, you give me a call back. It’s 8-5, because I’m one hell of a good person, man. Really. And I’m giving you a call, so hopefully my life gets a lot easier.
Larry Gifford
06:24 – 06:41
Again, that’s 8-5. You know what? If they peel off a check for a couple million for me and I just go away, man, I sat at the edge of the world today and I just started crying because I realized, man, I don’t want to be you guys, man. And I don’t want to be, ever be you guys, right?
Larry Gifford
06:41 – 06:55
But I realized, you know what? I kind of just want to take care of my family and do that whole deal. So if my options are social security and I take care of my family, then I’ll do it. If they peel me off a check, I’m moving me and my family out to Long Beach and we’re going to get a boat.
Larry Gifford
06:55 – 07:21
an apartment, you can just have it all, you know, and just enjoy life and relax and just peel it off, you know, own a little franchise and just relax. That was always my That was always my plan, Larry. That was always my plan, right? And so rather than get into like all the crazy stuff and how I see the world, that whole deal, that was always my plan, man.
Larry Gifford
07:21 – 07:41
You know, if I were breaking off that check, I’d work for a nonprofit, give the money away to charity and just have my family work for the franchise. and just be a family, man, because I really thought after that we were just, all the media, we were just going to be cool enough to go have a beer and smoke a blunt and I wasn’t going to ask you for a job. You know? And that was always the thing for me.
Larry Gifford
07:42 – 07:53
So Larry, you have a wonderful day, man, and I’m going to go enjoy Houston. My number’s 8***. Oh, goodness, 8***. Wow.
Larry Gifford
07:54 – 08:09
Thank you. I mean, is he here? That was a real call to my voicemail. Both of them, yeah.
Larry Gifford
08:09 – 08:19
No, that was one call, though. Yeah, that was one long voicemail message that he sent. And then, yeah. So the one thing he did do right is he left his phone number four times.
Larry Gifford
08:21 – 08:29
It didn’t really help him, right? Right? I mean, can’t we just all go have a drink and smoke a blunt? Ripped me off a check.
Larry Gifford
08:29 – 08:39
I just always thought that was the plan. He had a plan. The plan was he was going to work for a newspaper and then work for ESPN and get kind of checked for a million dollars. Wow.
Larry Gifford
08:40 – 09:05
So if you ever leave a voicemail like that, first off, you’re helping me because every time I do this, I get to add another voicemail. But you’re not helping yourself. So there is a right way and a wrong way to approach a manager at a radio station, and hopefully those give you some examples of how not to do it. If you do not want a job in radio and broadcasting, you should definitely be generic.
Larry Gifford
09:07 – 09:20
If you think about generic cola, And you talk about Bruce just went and got a Mountain Dew. It’s not just a generic soda. So he was on a specific mission. And you need to be somebody.
Larry Gifford
09:20 – 09:27
You need to identify yourself. You need to be unique. But if you don’t want a job in broadcasting, just be like everybody else. Be like Colin Cowherd.
Larry Gifford
09:28 – 09:40
Be generic. I mean, Colin is a unique individual among himself. But if you’re trying to copy him, then you’re just Xerox of him. And you’re not identifying yourself as something special.
Larry Gifford
09:40 – 10:05
You’re not Dr. Pepper or Mountain Dew. These are actual examples. I’ve gotten cover letters to Dear Sir Mattam, which is not my name, to ESPN, which is not my name, and to Dear Blank, because they didn’t take the time to make a phone call. It’s real easy to find out who’s hiring, or who’s the program director, or who’s the general manager, or who’s the VP.
Larry Gifford
10:05 – 10:16
Just make the call. You don’t even have to say who you are. You can say you’re with a research company, and you’re updating your files. I mean, if you’re embarrassed, just call the secretary.
Larry Gifford
10:17 – 10:22
Hey, who’s the program director? Oh, thanks. They’ll tell you. Real easy.
Larry Gifford
10:23 – 10:48
But when I was working for Fox Sports Radio, I was sports director for Fox Sports Radio. I used to get, probably twice a week, I would get a resume, Dear Mr. Fox. I didn’t read beyond that. Be generic.
Larry Gifford
10:49 – 11:06
My name is, could be anybody, and I would like to apply for any open position at your radio station. I’ve attached my cover letter and resume for your consideration. This is somebody who doesn’t have ambition. They just want a foot in the door, and I respect that, but you gotta have, you gotta know what you want.
Larry Gifford
11:07 – 11:27
You gotta know what you’re applying for. I imagine if I would call and say, yeah, we’re looking for somebody to clean out the septic tank, they would not accept that job. So if you want to be a board operator because you want to get your foot in the door, then make sure you specify that and why. Or a talk show host or whatever it is.
Larry Gifford
11:27 – 11:42
I’m seeking this position because I love sports and I’ve always dreamed about a career in this capacity. Actual example, I’ve probably received that 100 times. This job’s not about loving sports. This is a radio job.
Larry Gifford
11:44 – 11:56
It’s about being creative. It’s about everything Bruce talked about. On that, being a personality, did it say anything about sports? Did Bruce talk about sports at all?
Larry Gifford
11:59 – 12:05
That’s a topic. You can have passion about what you’re talking about. And you can love sports. That’s great.
Larry Gifford
12:05 – 12:20
But you’ve got to love radio and what we’re doing here. Because I can find a whole bunch of people that love sports that don’t know anything about radio. I can go out in that lobby and find people that love sports. But people say I have a good voice.
Larry Gifford
12:22 – 12:30
I should be on the air. It’s not about the voice either. Colin cowherd has a horrible voice. Squeals, squeaks.
Larry Gifford
12:32 – 12:49
So you got to loving sports doesn’t qualify you to be on the air on sports radio. It’s a good attribute. But it shouldn’t be what’s driving your passion. This is great.
Larry Gifford
12:50 – 13:13
Just put this on your cover letter, and you won’t get a job. To be the host of a radio or television show that will provide the public with breaking news in the sports world. Well, I mean, there’s a lot of things that are wrong with this. First off, you should cater your resume or your cover letter to wherever you’re you know, apply.
Larry Gifford
13:13 – 13:32
If you’re sending me a cover letter, don’t give me the generic, I want to be on the radio or TV, because I can’t help you in TV. I know ESPN has a lot of television, so I have nothing to do with that. I’m hiring for 710 ESPN or AM 830, that’s it. So be specific.
Larry Gifford
13:32 – 13:49
Don’t be sending out, I know we’re all sending out like hundreds of resumes. We don’t want to take the time to customize them. But if you don’t take the time to put the work in to get the job, are you going to take the time to put the work in to do the job? That’s what I always think.
Larry Gifford
13:51 – 14:18
When I see typos on a cover letter, you didn’t take the time to proofread your cover letter for a job? Then you’re probably not going to double check your work when you’re working for me. If you don’t want a job in broadcasting, be oblivious to where, what, and who you are applying. I want to work for 570 ESPN or 710 KLAC.
Larry Gifford
14:19 – 14:30
Got to get the numbers and the letters right, man. At this point, I know that you don’t know the market. I know that you’re not listening to the station. And I know that you don’t understand what you’re doing.
Larry Gifford
14:32 – 14:44
I’ve always wanted to work in New York. You should then. I got that a lot in Bristol. I always wanted to work in New York.
Larry Gifford
14:44 – 15:00
Well, good luck for you. We’re in Connecticut. The dear Mr. Fox, Mr. Guilford, Mr. Martin, who is the PD of AM570, I’d get his mail and he gets mine. Just get it right.
Larry Gifford
15:00 – 15:12
Be buttoned up. I’m applying for the job you posted. Do you know how many jobs I post? I think currently the station has probably five or six jobs posted.
Larry Gifford
15:12 – 15:29
One of them is for a secretary, and one of them’s for a part-time board op, and one of them’s for a senior producer. Do I just pick which one you might be interested in? Which one I think you’d look good in? Be specific.
Larry Gifford
15:31 – 15:47
How not to get a job in broadcasting? Ignore directions. If the ad says no calls, there’s a reason. Now, typically, I don’t put that.
Larry Gifford
15:48 – 16:08
But I’ll say, if you call, have something to say. Don’t waste my time. But by all means, never call if it says don’t call, because you’re just going to make them mad. And that’s no way to leave an impression.
Larry Gifford
16:08 – 16:24
If you don’t want a job in broadcasting, if the PD asks you to call back, don’t call him. I can’t tell you how many times that’s happened, where somebody will call him. I’ll be in a meeting, or I’ll be off to a meeting. I’m like, listen, I don’t have time right now, but if you can call me back at 1 o’clock, that’d be great.
Larry Gifford
16:24 – 16:30
Oh yeah, I’ll do that. I never hear from him again. I was happy to talk to him. I just didn’t have time.
Larry Gifford
16:32 – 16:44
A lot of people write in their cover letter, I’m going to follow up in a week. I never hear from them. Don’t write that if you’re not serious. Because I’m expecting it.
Larry Gifford
16:45 – 17:03
I actually, when I get those, I’ll put a little reminder in my calendar that I should be hearing from you. Usually I don’t. If you don’t want a job on the air, then don’t include samples of your work. I love this.
Larry Gifford
17:03 – 17:14
Samples of my work upon request. Dude, you’re trying to get on the air. That’s what’s going to sell it. If you’re a talk show host, I don’t care how you write.
Larry Gifford
17:14 – 17:28
I care how you talk. And if you can’t supply that up front, you’ve got problems. It doesn’t matter what you send. I get cassettes still.
Larry Gifford
17:32 – 17:57
Seriously, folks. It’s 2010. You know mp3 a link CD. You know let’s something This happens all the time people don’t label their stuff And and you can’t just label the case you got to label the CD or you got to label the you know the mp3 shouldn’t just be 0 4 7 7 7 dash 4 2 a
Larry Gifford
17:59 – 18:12
Doesn’t tell me who you are And I’m saving that on my computer, and I’m like, oh, this is good. Who is it? How do I get a hold of them? Name and phone number.
Larry Gifford
18:13 – 18:19
Basic. I don’t even need your address. I don’t care where you live. If you’re that good, I’ll call you and I’ll fly you out.
Larry Gifford
18:22 – 18:38
Include samples of the work that don’t apply to the position. I really want to work in sports. And here’s my on-air work, and I get an air check of somebody hosting a country music show. And that’s happened.
Larry Gifford
18:39 – 18:54
And I’m like, really? And then they know they’re applying for a sports job, so somewhere in that hour, that scoped hour of them spinning country music, they’re working in a Lakers score. on their country music station. And that’s their sports talk.
Larry Gifford
18:54 – 19:12
It’s like, seriously? I would rather you go in your closet with a recorder or go on your computer or microphone and just make it up. Just give me 15 good minutes of you talking about something and taking me somewhere and entertaining me. The quality, whether it’s on the air or off the air, it doesn’t matter.
Larry Gifford
19:12 – 19:20
If you can tell a story, you can tell a story. If you can entertain me, you can entertain me. I don’t care if it was on the air. I’ll get you on the air if you’re that good.
Larry Gifford
19:23 – 19:30
This happens. Not often, but it does. Oh, they effing suck. Screw these guys.
Larry Gifford
19:31 – 19:39
It doesn’t cut it, especially for ESPN. You’ve got to know the company that you’re applying for. Who owns ESPN? Disney, yeah.
Larry Gifford
19:39 – 19:54
You can apply for a job all you want, but I’m not going to take that risk. I’m not going to put my head on the line for somebody who I know when applying for the job was cussing, because you’re telling me what you are. That’s great. But that’s not for me.
Larry Gifford
19:55 – 20:06
But if that’s the kind of show you want, then yeah, keep sending that out. A lot of people think that’s showing how ballsy you are. It doesn’t matter anymore. You got to show me how smart you are.
Larry Gifford
20:06 – 20:20
Take me somewhere. Send your oldest possible sample. This is when I first started in college. I’ve actually asked people for air checks who’ve applied for on-air position.
Larry Gifford
20:20 – 20:29
They’re like, I really don’t have any. I’m like, well, you’ve been on the air. I’ve been on the air for 20 years. I’m like, well, just send me anything.
Larry Gifford
20:29 – 20:40
I don’t have anything. Somebody else wanted it, and I sent it to them. You can make copies. Word to the wise, make copies of your stuff.
Larry Gifford
20:40 – 20:45
Save the original for yourself. Make more copies. Never send off your original, because it won’t come back. I’ll throw it away.
Larry Gifford
20:46 – 21:11
But I’m just saying, I’ve gotten somebody in their cover letter said, this sample’s from about seven years ago, but I’m much better now. Wow, you show me the money. If you don’t want a job in broadcasting, be cocky, obnoxious, and overbearing. Make it known that you’re better than everybody else.
Larry Gifford
21:13 – 21:25
Talk about how bad the current talent on that station is. I’m going to tell people no. I’m going to tell more people no than I’m going to tell yes. At some point, you’re going to just have to understand I said no.
Larry Gifford
21:27 – 21:34
There’s some people who are like, no, no, really? No, no, I’ve made my decision. You’ve given me everything to make that decision. And it’s no.
Larry Gifford
21:35 – 21:48
But they’ll pester you for like, and then there’s no opportunity down the line. Like I may have said, well, you know, if something else comes that fits you, that’s great. No, I need this job. Well, no, you don’t get this job.
Larry Gifford
21:50 – 22:05
But there are some people that are overbearing that way. Pester the hiring manager with emails and phone calls. You know, it’s okay to follow up every now and again. But every day, every other day, maybe once a week, maybe, and I may say check back in a couple of weeks.
Larry Gifford
22:05 – 22:19
That doesn’t mean email tomorrow. That means in a couple weeks, follow up. Demand feedback for your error check. Well, why didn’t I get the job?
Larry Gifford
22:19 – 22:35
What specifically about what I have on my air check is wrong? It’s not, it’s so subjective. It’s not about right or wrong. It’s, you know, what I’m looking for is totally different than what Bruce is looking for and totally different than what somebody in St.
Larry Gifford
22:35 – 22:54
Louis is looking. I mean, every PD has their, you know, opinions of what’s good, what’s bad. And so I may give you advice that’s going to hurt you in your current job. Now, there are times where I will give advice, but it’s not usually when somebody goes, I demand to know why.
Larry Gifford
22:54 – 23:11
That doesn’t usually work. Be sure to blow the interview if you don’t want a job in broadcasting. I had a guy show up late. Been in the market 25 years.
Larry Gifford
23:12 – 23:32
Showed up to the interview late. didn’t dress up for it, actually had on shorts, a Hawaiian shirt buttoned down to here, and sat in my office like, what do you got? I don’t care if you’ve been in the market for 30 years and you’re number one. I mean, you got to play the game.
Larry Gifford
23:34 – 23:54
Demand set hours, no weekends, no holidays. That will get you in the door. I mean, I still have talent to complain that they have to work holidays when it’s game seven of the NBA semi-conference finals, which I don’t understand. Bring someone with you to the interview.
Larry Gifford
23:54 – 24:08
That happened when I was at Fox. And it should have been a sign. I should have been clued in. But he brought his wife to the interview.
Larry Gifford
24:10 – 24:27
And he does bring his wife to all interviews. And then he brought his wife with him to work. Every day. And then we asked him not to, and he left in the middle of his shift.
Larry Gifford
24:30 – 24:43
But, you know, I’m just saying, I’m not going to hire anybody who brings their wife with them anymore. Make it clear that you have a certain style and it’s non-negotiable. This is just who I am and this is what I do. Take it or leave it.
Larry Gifford
24:44 – 24:51
I’m leaving it. Because my job as program director is coach. I want to coach. I want to make you better.
Larry Gifford
24:51 – 25:09
I want to make you a star. At the highest levels, and this still amazes me, it’s so much easier to coach talent at the ESPN radio network than it is in the local markets. It’s 20 times easier. because they want to get better.
Larry Gifford
25:10 – 25:32
And everybody at that level knows that we’re kind of at that level. I mean, we have the experience, the know-how, you’ve built the trust, you’ve got the pedigree, and then you go to the local markets and they’re like, no, I’ve been doing this for 15 years, this is just how I do it. I’m like, well, if you do it this way, your ratings will go up and you’ll get a bonus. It’s just not me.
Larry Gifford
25:34 – 25:43
And then they go, why can’t I make more money? I’m like, you can. Listen to me. Burn all bridges to previous employers.
Larry Gifford
25:43 – 26:03
Now there are some exceptions to this because people have done it and come back, notably Keith Oberman. But it’s rare, and you’ve got to be really talented. So when you’re in an interview, if you’re working for Bruce Gilbert, and you interview with me, and you go, man, that guy is a jerk. That place is a mess.
Larry Gifford
26:04 – 26:17
I can’t believe they’re still in the air. Well, I’m pretty good friends with Bruce. And I like what he does. So that’s not going to.
Larry Gifford
26:17 – 26:30
look good on you if you start throwing him under the bus. Even if he was my competition here in LA, I’m friends with those guys. I mean, it’s a small, tight-knit community. I mean, we hate each other, but we love each other.
Larry Gifford
26:31 – 26:45
Because we’re promoting sports talk radio. We’re promoting the format in the marketplace. So you don’t want to tear down where you’ve been, because A, you don’t know if they’re going to come back. That manager may be your manager here.
Larry Gifford
26:45 – 27:00
I mean, it’s not about. you know, leaving that and never seeing them again. You may have to knock on the door and ask for another job someday. I’ve fired guys from one station, they go to another station, and I get hired there.
Larry Gifford
27:02 – 27:20
And they’re like, ugh. Because I know they’ve been talking smack. So just, you know, just be nice. You can talk about all you want behind their, you know, off the record to other people, but in an interview, You know, because that’s how you’re going to treat me in the end, too, and I don’t want that.
Larry Gifford
27:22 – 27:42
Make it difficult to reach you for follow-up. You know, don’t put your phone number or, hey, call me between 1 and 2 on my lunch break. You know, only on Thursdays when there’s a full moon. Keep your Facebook and MySpace pages public and raunchy.
Larry Gifford
27:43 – 28:06
Interrupt the interview to answer your cell phone. Don’t take notes, don’t ask questions. I actually love it when people have questions at the end of an interview. It tells me that, A, you’re interested, you’re engaged, you’re paying attention, and that you really, you know, people who don’t have questions, especially if they’re interviewing to be a talk show host, it tells me they’re not curious.
Larry Gifford
28:11 – 28:23
When you don’t know what to say, just babble. It’s so uncomfortable. And flirt with the interviewer. That’s always good.
Larry Gifford
28:24 – 28:35
Play with your hair and bite your nails. And don’t have any goals or accomplishments that you can actually talk about. Seriously, that question’s going to come up. What are you most proud of?
Larry Gifford
28:37 – 28:51
I don’t know. What’s your strength? You kind of know, this is your time to brag. So tell people about what you’ve done and where you’ve been and what you do best.
Larry Gifford
28:52 – 29:06
All right, so this is an email exchange with a guy, and I’ve removed his full name. He may be here, I don’t know. And this was for a job at the ESPN Radio Network. And this went on and on and on.
Larry Gifford
29:06 – 29:17
This is great. This is how bad people screw up. And I hope you learn from this. These are the lessons learned from Bob G.
Larry Gifford
29:19 – 29:34
Tuesday, November 22, 2005. My name is Bob. I’d like to tell you a little bit about myself and the space provided here. I have over four years of experience in news talk radio format which includes sports news weather reporter duties.
Larry Gifford
29:34 – 29:57
Some of these responsibilities include interviewing local high school and college coaches as well as key team players for network feeds during this time. I also help produce local and network shows. In May 2001, I received an Associate of Applied Science degree in Broadcasting Mass Media from a two-year community college. While at that college, I served as a Production Director at the college radio station.
Larry Gifford
29:57 – 30:16
The job consisted of assigning daily production imaging, station programming, and promotions. I also did the morning show and helped fill in shifts when needed. Other academic activities I was involved in included writing news stories and editorials for the college newspaper. The editorials dealt with many subjects ranging from the firing of Bob Knight to XFL smash mouth football.
Larry Gifford
30:17 – 30:37
He had a couple of typos and punctuation errors there. Currently, I’m attending a four-year state college with an anticipated graduation in May 2006 in business administration. I also have vast experience with web design as I manage my own website. If you’d like more information or if you have further questions, please feel free to contact me.
Larry Gifford
30:39 – 30:53
I mean, sure, some will say this DJ is only able to one type of format. You would be wrong. Growing up where I have and having the parents I have, listening and growing with many different types of music formats were the norm. This is the cover letter.
Larry Gifford
30:54 – 31:14
Knowing artists like the Oak Ridge Boys, Statler Brothers, Tom T. Hall, knowing artists like Buddy Holly, Ricky Nelson, Walter Brennan, Buddy Knox, etc. I know my music when it comes to today’s artists as well. I mean, there’s nothing that I can or cannot do. I got a college education.
Larry Gifford
31:16 – 31:31
and the experience that came with it. And I know that your station, big or small, could use my talents. Just give a guy a chance and let me prove to you that I will be your next jock for 30 years. Now, if you need a resume, I’ve put one on the website linked below.
Larry Gifford
31:31 – 31:39
Thanks. Have a great day. He was applying to be a producer. Tom T.
Larry Gifford
31:39 – 31:50
Hall. Okay, so here’s what I wrote. Hey Bob, thanks for your interest in producing Mike and Mike in the morning. All applicants are being asked to provide a resume, a producer philosophy, and a critique of Mike and Mike.
Larry Gifford
31:51 – 32:06
I look forward to hearing from you. This is an hour and a half later. My resume is on my website, but if you need it I can email it to you. Also, what would you want in a producer philosophy?
Larry Gifford
32:07 – 32:27
Also, I think a critique of Mike and Mike would not be good if I was going to be working with them. Dear Bob, Thank you again, this is about a week later. Thank you again for your interest in ESPN Radio and Mike and Mike in the Morning’s producer position. I am emailing to inform you that you are not being considered for this job.
Larry Gifford
32:28 – 32:54
Despite your initial email which claimed you wanted to be my jock for the next 30 years, I also never received a resume, philosophy, or show critique. All of these items are extremely important in deciding if you’re a good fit for the show. A great producer should have a defined philosophy in how to prepare and execute a show and should be able to critique the program daily in an effort to consistently improve it. If you are serious about pursuing a career in radio, I would recommend personalizing correspondence to each station, attaching your resume, and fulfilling the requirements set by each manager.
Larry Gifford
32:54 – 33:14
I would have emailed you a letter, but I never received your resume, which would it give me your address? Best regards, Larry. A little bit later that day, Bob emailed. Well, the way you were stating it is that you wanted me to critique it now, and I said that’d not be fair for me to do since I had not had a chance to listen to the show.
Larry Gifford
33:17 – 33:29
That is why I never sent you anything to you. Also, I know what needs to be done to improve the show. But again, I could not say it because I’m not employed or in a position to do so. If you hire me to do so, then I would.
Larry Gifford
33:29 – 33:47
I think it was unfair to have someone do that that would not be hired to do it in the first place. Seriously? This was the addendum that came a few minutes later. Also, you were given a place to find my resume.
Larry Gifford
33:47 – 34:00
It’s all online 24-7. So, that was December 6, 2005. February 8, 2008. Bob G.
Larry Gifford
34:01 – 34:13
Wow! He’s still at it! I’m looking for a commercial production director. resume and references attached.
Larry Gifford
34:13 – 34:18
So he’s learned something. How about that? All right. No cover letter, no demo.
Larry Gifford
34:20 – 34:40
That’s all he, there was no note. He just said, resume references attached. Now he’s applying for a commercial production director and he didn’t apply, he didn’t attach a demo. And then later he realized that and said, my demo, by the way, is online.
Larry Gifford
34:40 – 34:52
via blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It was rejected. Never to hear from Bob G again. Yes, the sad tale of Bob G.
Larry Gifford
34:54 – 35:03
Okay, so real quick, how to get a job in broadcasting. Networking. It’s what you’re doing today and this weekend. It’s networking.
Larry Gifford
35:04 – 35:17
Get Bruce Gilbert’s business card. Who here already has it? I’ve got it. Do anything.
Larry Gifford
35:19 – 35:32
Don’t tell them you’ll do anything, just be willing to do anything. I did traffic reporting in a helicopter. I wanted to be a talk show host. I wanted to be the next whoever, Rush Limbaugh at the time.
Larry Gifford
35:33 – 35:45
And I guess still today, he’s still number one. I was horrible. But everybody told me I was good at news. I didn’t want to be a newscaster, but I was good at it and people were willing to pay me to do it.
Larry Gifford
35:46 – 36:07
I learned to love that job because the paycheck came every two weeks. Be available. If you really want a job in radio, be willing to do anything at any time. I’ve got a guy that works for me now, part-time, and he’s just working his butt off.
Larry Gifford
36:09 – 36:27
Comes in at four in the morning, he’s cutting tape, he’s anchoring some sports centers, and he drives an hour and a half home. And I call him and go, we have breaking news, can you come back? Yep, I’m coming. I don’t know what’s happening with his family life, but he’s got a kid, and he’s got a dog, and he’s got a wife.
Larry Gifford
36:27 – 36:33
He’s taking care of that. He’s not bothering me with it. It’s not, oh, well, you know, my kid has a dentist appointment. No, he’s like, I’m on it.
Larry Gifford
36:33 – 36:45
Because he wants a full time job. And he’s going to get one, eventually. because he’s willing to do anything and be there whenever I need him. And that’s what I need as a manager, is people I can rely on.
Larry Gifford
36:46 – 36:58
Now there’s times where you just can’t do it, and that’s cool, but it can’t be every time. Be curious. This has come up a lot. Be curious.
Larry Gifford
36:59 – 37:10
Be prepared. Preparation is the key. Be professional. We could have shown up in shorts and t-shirts today and given the same information.
Larry Gifford
37:11 – 37:27
But we didn’t, because we want to present ourselves in a certain light. And you should be proud of who you are and what you represent, which is you. And you want to work for a company that’s making millions and millions and millions of dollars a year. And they want people that look good and act professionally.
Larry Gifford
37:28 – 37:38
So it’s important that you learn how to do that. Communicate. We are in the communications business, and we all suck at it. We do.
Larry Gifford
37:38 – 37:54
We’re horrible at it. We’re getting texts on Twitters, and we’re trying to fit everything in 144 characters, or emails that don’t have proper punctuation, or grammar, or spelling. There is spell check on computers these days. I mean, it’s not that hard to do anymore.
Larry Gifford
37:55 – 38:17
Just communicate, and in your communications, be professional. Be passionate. Passion drives you. If you don’t have a passion for sports talk radio, for radio, for anything, you’re not gonna be successful because there’s nothing driving you.
Larry Gifford
38:18 – 38:34
Be dedicated, be accountable. Yeah, my fault, I screwed up. It’s okay to say that. What’s worse is, I don’t know what happened, but Roger was in there the last time I saw it.
Larry Gifford
38:37 – 38:50
Be tech savvy. You know, that’s even probably an outdated term. You got to keep up with the technology. New media, know what’s out there, know what’s possible.
Larry Gifford
38:51 – 39:02
Because when you get hired, I want you coming into my office going, you know what we really should be doing? There’s this really cool thing that they’re doing now. It’s all the rage. And I’m like, I don’t know anything about it.
Larry Gifford
39:02 – 39:07
But you do? Cool, let’s do it. Make me better. Make me smarter.
Larry Gifford
39:07 – 39:12
Make me younger. Make me hipper. Make me money. Be aware.
Larry Gifford
39:13 – 39:28
Don’t just show up and punch a clock, be in your hole, and then leave. Be aware of what’s going on at the radio station, of what’s going on in the business, in the industry, in sports, in everything you do. Be aware. Be alert.
Larry Gifford
39:28 – 40:02
Have your eyes open, your head up. Don’t be looking at your shoes all day. These are things, the first two weeks I was at ESPN, I think I was in 400 meetings. And I took notes in all of them. And I’d write down keywords and keynotes that really important people would talk about, people that I admire, great leaders in this industry, some that are still at ESPN and some that have moved on. And these are what I came up with after two weeks. Now, I’ve got a list that goes on and on and on. But I keep this on my wall.
Larry Gifford
40:02 – 40:12
And I send this out periodically to my staff. Do what it takes, whatever it takes. Be an owner of ESPN. Be an owner of wherever you work.
Larry Gifford
40:12 – 40:20
Own it. That’s not my job. It doesn’t cut it. It’s not good enough.
Larry Gifford
40:21 – 40:40
If you’re off shift but you’re listening and you hear a wrong promo, Aaron, because it’s outdated and it’s promoting the fact that we’ll have breaking news if John Wooden dies and John Wooden already died, get that off the air. Be an owner. Set your personal standards high. Sacrifice and commit.
Larry Gifford
40:41 – 40:48
Do whatever it takes to make things right. Get on it. Take action. Do the right thing.
Larry Gifford
40:48 – 40:58
Be passionate. Where’s the energy? Take risks. I heard this the other day, and I’m going to use it in my next brainstorm.
Larry Gifford
40:59 – 41:16
And it should be how you approach every day. Once you get a job, as you’re trying to figure out what you’re going to talk about that day, start with, what’s going to get me fired? Start there. Don’t start with, well, we couldn’t do that because we work for Disney.
Larry Gifford
41:17 – 41:23
We couldn’t do that because we work for ESPN. They’ll never allow it. You’re going to start in a box. Start outside the box.
Larry Gifford
41:23 – 41:31
What’s going to get me fired? And then pull back from there. Take away the parts that are going to get you fired. And you’ll have a much better idea.
Larry Gifford
41:33 – 41:53
Take risks, that’s a risk. But it’s a safe risk, because you’ve already eliminated the things that are gonna get you fired. You may get slapped on the hand, you may get called in the office, but if you could explain why you did it, and it’s not good enough to say, well, Larry told me to, know why you’re doing it. Calculated risks are really important in moving ahead.
Larry Gifford
41:55 – 42:07
When Bruce Gilbert hired Colin Cowherd, that was a calculated risk, and he had to fight. Now it seems like it should be a no-brainer. Colin Coward, he’s great. At the time, ooh.
Larry Gifford
42:07 – 42:20
That was tough, wasn’t it, Bruce? Challenge conventional wisdom. What’s that mean? Well, we’ve always done it this way.
Larry Gifford
42:23 – 42:31
That’s right. Have a can-do attitude. Be creative. Evolve or face extension.
Larry Gifford
42:32 – 42:42
I think that might have been yours. Evolve or face extension. What’s that mean? It means you gotta constantly be changing.
Larry Gifford
42:43 – 43:03
You can’t do today what you did yesterday or last week. This business is moving too fast. I started on reel-to-reels, cutting it up with razor blades. I don’t think they allow razor blades in the building anymore, because it’s a security risk.
Larry Gifford
43:03 – 43:13
Speak up. Everybody’s opinion is worthwhile. If you can make us better, speak up. If you don’t think something’s right, speak up.
Larry Gifford
43:14 – 43:26
Just because you’re part-time doesn’t mean that you don’t matter. Or just because you’re new doesn’t mean you don’t matter. You’re there because you’re important. because you matter and because you’re part of the team.
Larry Gifford
43:29 – 43:45
And when you speak up, have something to say, and the more you do it, the more people go, well, what do you think? And then you become valuable, and you build your value to the station. Drive for results. Bruce talked about ratings.
Larry Gifford
43:46 – 44:05
Ratings is the name of the game. You don’t get ratings, you know, you can get hired a lot of different places, but if you’re not getting ratings, you’re not going to keep those jobs very long. And know that money also drives the station. So if you can help bring in revenue, that’s really important.
Larry Gifford
44:05 – 44:12
Sales is your friend, not your enemy. Know what fans want. Embrace diversity. We talked a little bit about that today.
Larry Gifford
44:12 – 44:24
Be exciting, be excited, and don’t be the complainer. Every station has one, and they don’t last very long. Because, oh, why don’t they fix this? Well, I talked to them about this.
Larry Gifford
44:25 – 44:35
I don’t want to hear it. Give me a solution. Hey, this was broken and here’s what I did to fix it. Or hey, you know, we’ve been doing it this way for a long time, but here’s what I think we should do.
Larry Gifford
44:35 – 44:48
Come with solutions. Who has questions? Wow. Derek from Cal State Fullerton, where you’ve given this presentation before.
Larry Gifford
44:48 – 44:55
Yeah, but you didn’t get the really long voicemail there, did you? No, we didn’t. That was new. It was worth the price of admission, by the way.
Larry Gifford
44:55 – 45:24
Yeah. You and Bruce talk a lot about talent and passion and getting a job as a sportscaster, but you guys don’t talk too much on experience. Is that something that you look too much into when you’re looking to hire people to get a sportscasting job? It depends on what job I’m hiring for, and what my budget is, and what market I’m in.
Larry Gifford
45:25 – 45:42
Do you recommend to get that experience to start off in a smaller market? Like if, for example, with me as a college student, should I go out to a smaller market to get that experience? Yes. Yes.
Larry Gifford
45:42 – 45:57
Absolutely. The more reps, the better. The more you can do this, the more you can practice doing this on a daily basis anywhere, you’ll get better. And as you get better, You’ll send out more tapes and you’ll get more feedback.
Larry Gifford
45:58 – 46:12
I mean, you just gotta do it. In order to find your voice, we talk about how do you develop, somebody asked, how do you develop a personality? By doing it every day. Do a podcast every day.
Larry Gifford
46:14 – 46:25
Set that goal for yourself. And don’t send it to anybody, just listen to it. That’s okay. You gotta practice telling stories and developing topics and paying them off.
Larry Gifford
46:26 – 46:39
You can’t just show up and go, we’re talking about John Wooden today. I’m not even from LA. He was a good coach. It’s sad to see him go.
Larry Gifford
46:39 – 46:56
I mean, that’s… Does that answer your question? As much experience as you can get, get it. I used to do shows for free for local stations in Westerville, Ohio, Sunday morning at 5 AM.
Larry Gifford
46:59 – 47:19
Any time you can get on the air, get on the air. You said what you send should be applicable to what you’re applying for. Yes. If you are applying for an internship, should you include a demo, even if your ambition is to later be a talk show host, but you’re going to enter at the bottom level as an intern?
Larry Gifford
47:19 – 47:28
As an intern, you don’t need a demo. Because you’re not going to be on the air. Just most likely. Now, I’m saying that from an LA perspective.
Larry Gifford
47:28 – 47:37
I was on the air as an intern in Columbus, Ohio. But it just depends on the nature of the internship. And I actually had already worked for the station and had already been on the air in other capacities. So it’s different.
Larry Gifford
47:38 – 47:58
So there are opportunities for some internships to have on-air capacity. But you’ll know that when you’re applying. What is your actual read open rate of emails when somebody sends out their resume? And what suggestions do you have to make yourself stand out so that you would open it?
Larry Gifford
48:00 – 48:13
I read everything. Dirty little secret, most jobs that are posted are already filled. It’s about networking. And it’s OK to use people you know that are at the station to get into the PD.
Larry Gifford
48:13 – 48:30
I mean, leverage whatever you can leverage. But you never know what we’re looking for. Sometimes people walk through the door, and I’m like, this wasn’t what I was planning, but maybe I can find something for them. So it’s just about being buttoned up.
Larry Gifford
48:30 – 48:47
And there will be a right fit. But don’t be so stubborn that you have to work at 710 ESPN in Los Angeles. Because as long as I’m there, you may not. But Bruce could come in and replace me and he may want to hire a whole different staff.
Larry Gifford
48:47 – 48:59
So it’s all about the different PDs. So don’t get frustrated if a PD doesn’t like you because that’s just one guy’s opinion or one woman’s opinion. You just keep fighting. Keep doing it.
Larry Gifford
48:59 – 49:11
Keep doing it. We’re all in the same boat here because we all share a great passion for this incredible industry. But if you really want it, you can get it. You just got to keep knocking on doors and keep hammering it home.
Larry Gifford
49:12 – 49:20
And it may not be Larry. It may not be Bruce. But there’s someone out there that’s going to recognize your passion and your talent. I am living proof of that.
Larry Gifford
49:20 – 49:33
I’ve worked at this now. I’ve been fortunate to do it for more than 10 years. And I just have such a passion for it, I refused to not be successful in this business and I kept doing it. I had to say that, Larry, sorry.
Larry Gifford
49:33 – 49:53
No, that’s good. I was just kind of going on a little bit about what this gentleman was talking about, about the education aspect. Yeah. You know, getting on the air as much as you can, I understand that.
Larry Gifford
49:53 – 50:07
You know, start wherever you can. Right. And basically what I was wanting to know is, you know, do you have to have a college degree to get to the high point? No.
Larry Gifford
50:07 – 50:17
In fact, I was working at a radio station in Columbus, Ohio when I graduated from college and I went to the PD. Yeah, I graduated from college. I get a raise. He goes, I don’t care that you graduated from college.
Larry Gifford
50:17 – 50:26
Just be good, be entertaining. It doesn’t matter. Does Rush Limbaugh have a college education? Dropout, right?
Larry Gifford
50:27 – 50:41
Yeah, I mean, it doesn’t matter. You just got to be good. Some of the best hosts. you know, back probably in the screamer era, where cabbies plucked off the street and put on the air.
Larry Gifford
50:41 – 50:55
I mean, guys with personality. Life experience. Well, the great thing about college is that you get to be on the air. I mean, if you have a college radio station, just, you know, I did play-by-play.
Larry Gifford
50:55 – 51:00
I did morning shows. I did night shows. I did sports reports and news. I mean, whatever they would have me.
Larry Gifford
51:00 – 51:08
I was doing, like, volleyball for the local high school on the radio. I mean, who does that? You just do it. Whatever you can do.
Larry Gifford
51:10 – 51:22
Where’s the microphone? Right here. A question for you. How do you, as a PD, how do you prefer receiving materials?
Larry Gifford
51:24 – 51:50
Professionally. In terms of electronically, this one guy here, when we went through this string, he had talked about an attachment. Well, with the viruses, I would assume that you’re not going to be opening up unsolicited attachments, but he did also say that his resume was online by clicking it. Now, there are offline delivery methodologies also, but how do you prefer receiving it?
Larry Gifford
51:51 – 52:13
I prefer to hold it in my hand and have a CD. But ESPN actually has a process now where everything goes through Bristol. So you have to apply online, and you attach all your stuff there, and then HR sends it to me. So it’s kind of different for ESPN-owned and operated stations in the network than it would be for other PDs.
Larry Gifford
52:13 – 52:33
I think every PD is different. Some guys say they want to get tapes and resumes, and then when they do, they don’t ever listen to them, which I don’t understand. Literally, I’ve been where I’ve put out for jobs where it’s like, oh, I need a talk show host. And I’ll have a box full of tapes.
Larry Gifford
52:34 – 52:44
And I’ll spend a weekend just listening. And I won’t listen to the whole thing. You get 20 seconds, maybe a minute. And then if you pass that test, you get a little longer.
Larry Gifford
52:44 – 52:53
So put your best stuff up forward. Don’t save it for the end, because we’re not going to hear it. Does that make sense? But I’ve accepted MP3s.
Larry Gifford
52:53 – 53:05
I’ve accepted cassettes, and CDs, and links. Voicemails. Yeah. Where’s the?
Larry Gifford
53:05 – 53:12
Yes, sir. Hi, my name is Jonah Ezell. I’m an aspiring sports talent one day. Johnny, what’s your last name?
Larry Gifford
53:12 – 53:34
Jonah Ezell. Jonah Ezell, okay. And my question was, now that you’ve delved into the do’s and don’ts of getting a broadcasting job, there was one part you didn’t really like delving to, just based on my experience of applying for jobs. There’s a there’s like behind the scenes politics that comes with it as far as regardless of you know putting resumes cover letters out there.
Larry Gifford
53:34 – 53:47
It’s it comes down to like who knows who or who knows who. Right. But I mean but some people can’t control. Like that they’ve never met an executive before, a PD before, like it informs like this.
Larry Gifford
53:47 – 54:06
So like how can people who may not have the connections per se, because they’re maybe relatively new to the industry, how can they overcome that hurdle? Because a lot of people, regardless of your credentials, it comes down to, you know, referrals and who knows who. It’s true. So you need to get to get out and meet people, introduce yourself.
Larry Gifford
54:08 – 54:15
I mean, that’s what it comes down to. That’s why you’re here. Luckily, none of you are in this position anymore because you both met Bruce and you both met me.
